Trump told Pence he'd 'go down as a wimp' if he certified Biden's 2020 win, new book claims
WASHINGTON, DC: On the morning of January 6, 2021, the day a mob stormed the US Capitol, Donald Trump phoned his Vice President Mike Pence and warned that he would “go down as a wimp” if he certified Joe Biden’s election victory, according to a new book.
The account appears in 'Retribution', a book by ABC News's political correspondent Jonathan Karl, who reportedly obtained Pence’s handwritten notes from that fateful day.
Trump, Karl writes, tried to allegedly shame Pence into rejecting the electoral count, saying, “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago. You’ll go down as a wimp.”
Pence wrote about courage 'to uphold the law'
That alleged final January 6 phone call reportedly marked the culmination of a weeks-long pressure campaign by Donald Trump to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to block certification of Joe Biden’s 2020 election victory.
According to special counsel Jack Smith’s 2023 indictment, Trump’s efforts began well before the riot, intensifying in the days leading up to it.
Smith cited Pence’s handwritten notes from a January 4 meeting in which Trump, surrounded by advisers, made an all-out push to convince him to reject the Electoral College results.
Pence’s notes, quoted in 'Retribution', show that he pushed back firmly, reminding Trump of their oath to “support and defend the Constitution.”
“It doesn’t take courage to break the law,” Pence wrote. “It takes courage to uphold the law.”
Trump reportedly told Pence that he was listening "to the wrong people."
Despite the intense pressure, Pence certified Biden’s victory, later saying he had “no constitutional authority” to overturn the results.
Trump pardoned Capitol rioters after 2024 victory
Trump’s reported refusal to accept his 2020 loss and his repeated claims of widespread voter fraud culminated in the January 6 riot, when his alleged supporters breached the Capitol, delaying certification for hours and allegedly calling for Pence to be hanged.
More than 1,500 individuals were reportedly charged or convicted in connection with the attack.
When Trump returned to the White House in 2025 after defeating Vice President Kamala Harris, one of his first acts was to pardon or commute the sentences of all the individuals tied to the Capitol riot.
Trump's critics still view Pence’s notes as key evidence in the case against the president for attempting to overturn the 2020 election.
Trump allegedly vying for a third term
The excerpt from 'Retribution' comes just days after former Trump strategist Steve Bannon told The Economist that Trump could seek a third term in 2028 despite constitutional limits.
“People ought to just get accommodated with that,” Bannon said, allegedly hinting at a “plan” to keep Trump in office beyond two terms.
The forthcoming book 'Retribution' by Jonathan Karl provides fresh insights into the inner workings of the Trump White House and campaign machine, promising unparalleled access to key moments and decisions.
The excerpt revealing the heated January 6 call adds to a growing catalogue of previously unseen documentation, including Pence’s notes.
