Trump told Pence he'd 'go down as a wimp' if he certified Biden's 2020 win, new book claims

Jonathan Karl’s new book cited Mike Pence’s notes from January 6, 2021, regarding a heated call with Donald Trump as the Capitol riot unfolded
ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl’s new book revealed that Donald Trump allegedly pressured Mike Pence to reject Biden's 2020 presidential win (Getty Images)
ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl’s new book revealed that Donald Trump allegedly pressured Mike Pence to reject Biden's 2020 presidential win (Getty Images)

WASHINGTON, DC: On the morning of January 6, 2021, the day a mob stormed the US Capitol, Donald Trump phoned his Vice President Mike Pence and warned that he would “go down as a wimp” if he certified Joe Biden’s election victory, according to a new book.

The account appears in 'Retribution', a book by ABC News's political correspondent Jonathan Karl, who reportedly obtained Pence’s handwritten notes from that fateful day. 

Trump, Karl writes, tried to allegedly shame Pence into rejecting the electoral count, saying, “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago. You’ll go down as a wimp.”

CLEVELAND, OH - JULY 20:  Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump stands with Republican vice
Donald Trump stands with Republican Vice Presidential candidate Mike Pence and acknowledges the crowd on the third day of the Republican National Convention on July 20, 2016, at the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland, Ohio (Getty Images)

Pence wrote about courage 'to uphold the law' 

That alleged final January 6 phone call reportedly marked the culmination of a weeks-long pressure campaign by Donald Trump to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to block certification of Joe Biden’s 2020 election victory.

According to special counsel Jack Smith’s 2023 indictment, Trump’s efforts began well before the riot, intensifying in the days leading up to it.

Smith cited Pence’s handwritten notes from a January 4 meeting in which Trump, surrounded by advisers, made an all-out push to convince him to reject the Electoral College results.

President-elect Donald Trump and incoming first lady Melania Trump greet former Vice President Mike Pence at the state funeral for former President Jimmy Carter at Washington National Cathedral on January 9, 2025 in Washington, DC. President Joe Biden declared today a national day of mourning for Carter, the 39th President of the United States, who died at the age of 100 on December 29, 2024 at his home in Plains, Georgia. Following the state funeral, Carter’s remains will be returned to Plains, Georgia where he will be interred after a private family service. (Photo by Haiyun Jiang-Pool/Getty Images)
Donald Trump and First Lady Melania Trump greet former Vice President Mike Pence at the state funeral for former President Jimmy Carter at Washington National Cathedral on January 9, 2025, in Washington, DC (Haiyun Jiang-Pool/Getty Images)

Pence’s notes, quoted in 'Retribution', show that he pushed back firmly, reminding Trump of their oath to “support and defend the Constitution.”

“It doesn’t take courage to break the law,” Pence wrote. “It takes courage to uphold the law.”

Trump reportedly told Pence that he was listening "to the wrong people."

Despite the intense pressure, Pence certified Biden’s victory, later saying he had “no constitutional authority” to overturn the results.

WASHINGTON, DC - SEPTEMBER 05: U.S. President Donald Trump speaks to members of the media as he signs executive orders during a press availability in the Oval Office of the White House on September 05, 2025 in Washington, DC. President Trump signed executive orders which included the renaming of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. (Photo by Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images)
President Donald Trump speaks to members of the media as he signs executive orders during a press availability in the Oval Office of the White House on September 05, 2025, in Washington, DC (Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images)

Trump pardoned Capitol rioters after 2024 victory

Trump’s reported refusal to accept his 2020 loss and his repeated claims of widespread voter fraud culminated in the January 6 riot, when his alleged supporters breached the Capitol, delaying certification for hours and allegedly calling for Pence to be hanged.

More than 1,500 individuals were reportedly charged or convicted in connection with the attack.

MOUNT VERNON, VIRGINIA - SEPTEMBER 20: US President Donald Trump speaks at the American Cornerstone Institute Founders' Dinner on September 20, 2025 in Mount Vernon, Virginia. (Photo by Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)
President Donald Trump speaks at the American Cornerstone Institute Founders' Dinner on September 20, 2025, in Mount Vernon, Virginia (Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)

When Trump returned to the White House in 2025 after defeating Vice President Kamala Harris, one of his first acts was to pardon or commute the sentences of all the individuals tied to the Capitol riot. 

Trump's critics still view Pence’s notes as key evidence in the case against the president for attempting to overturn the 2020 election.

Trump allegedly vying for a third term

The excerpt from 'Retribution' comes just days after former Trump strategist Steve Bannon told The Economist that Trump could seek a third term in 2028 despite constitutional limits.

“People ought to just get accommodated with that,” Bannon said, allegedly hinting at a “plan” to keep Trump in office beyond two terms.

WASHINGTON, DC - JANUARY 06: Protesters attempt to enter the U.S. Capitol Building on January 06, 20
Protesters attempt to enter the US Capitol Building on January 06, 2021 (Getty Images)

The forthcoming book 'Retribution' by Jonathan Karl provides fresh insights into the inner workings of the Trump White House and campaign machine, promising unparalleled access to key moments and decisions. 

The excerpt revealing the heated January 6 call adds to a growing catalogue of previously unseen documentation, including Pence’s notes.

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